Changes
Silicon Storm... What is it? Never heard about before... [[Villain|Villain]]
:@TFM, lease provide some sources about this mystical "silicon storm" during the next 7 days, otherwise we have to revert the entry again. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]]::Silicon.SToRM is the project name of the SymbiFace III prototype boards. The informations regarding that name in this article are substantially wrong, as the<br> SF3 / Silicon.SToRM provides neither a RAM-Extension, a ROM-Extension nor something else, that is allready provided by the SF2.
::Informations about that prototype should be considered absolutly confidential until i release them myself to the public. to just avoid such missinformations ! <br> Unfortunatly i talked to TFM about my current work. Not a good idea as it shows. Thank you much TFM! - I reverted the article to the previous state. [[Dr.Zed|Dr.Zed]]
:::@Dr. Zed: Sorry dass ich das Wort verwendet habe, hatte eben gerade Zeit und wollte die Seite auf dem aktuellen Stand halten. Ich habe ja sonnst nichts kommentiert. No informations have been provided here at all, nothing bad has happened.:::@Prodatron: "We have to revert" - ja Euer Majestät! Your luck that it is far under my level to treat the SymbOS article like you try to treat the FutureOS article. It was an error to support you with my Floppy Disc routines for SymbOS, just to see you - my friend - falling me in my back again and again. [[TFM|TFM]]
::::What kind of reaction is this?? We just wanted to know, what mystical hardware this is. And if it wouldn't exist, there is of course no place for it in the CPC-Wiki. That was everything I wrote, nothing else!?! Crazy reaction...
::::Anyway as we see, you added again a hardware in your blowed-up 'support' list, which you don't support. You even didnt know about the features of the SYMBiFACE III at all (a lot of people already know :-D) and there are no specification available yet, but - of course as usual! - your Fos supports all of it... Wow! Why are you always doing this again and again? What kind of behaviour is this?
::::Oh yes: Your FDC routines (which I don't use btw): Hello?? Did you forget that I also gave you my IDE routines at the same time? That was 2004. Oh man, that's so long ago! You wrote it in all the different lists all the time during all these years, but there is still no FAT file system support available for the public in Fos (ok, maybe in your mystical secret lab) Please note: One of your problems is to post too much hoax. At one point people start stopping believing you at all... [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]]
:::::-Dear Prodatron, maybe you don't have recognized it. But you behave here like the original owner of the CPCWiki. You impute that something is not existing only because YOU don't know it. Do you know all in this world?
:::::-If you would ask like every other person would do... but you issue an ultimatum! Are you the owner of the CPCWiki?
:::::- The actual IDE ROM for FutureOS can be downloaded. Right, there is no complete FAT support, who cares? I prefer to make a game at the moment. Thats more fun for me. If you have a problem with this, thats not my problem.
:::::-A hoax? Can you please provide hard facts or do you just want to discredite me? I think people believe me, because I'm a honest man, straight and correct. But your behaviour is still unappropriate! What a pity to see you going down that poor way.
:::::Finally I relly think this discussion is fruitless, lets stop it here. [[TFM|TFM]].
I neither use SymbOS nor FutureOS but I honestly have to say that in my eyes it is really very, very strange to mention hardware that is supported by FutureOS that not even exists as a prototype. And what is also really strange is the fact that suddenly a new user appeared (Xyran80) who is editing the SymbOS article. Sometimes I don´t believe in coincidence and really want to ask if all this bullshit is really necessary... [[Villain|Villain]]
:The other topic... really! Great! Haaahahahahahaha! Thanks for the hint. Hey guys, now you really have done it. Seems that you have activated somebody who is on my side. And I also really DO NOT believe in coincidence! Sometimes the universe is just fair. And the best thing is, I just must not move only one finger. Hahahahahaha! Thank you all for this wonderfull day! [[TFM|TFM]].
::Guys, guys,'''PLEASE CALM DOWN EVERYBODY!''' I don't think that TFM commited such a crime. He hinted at some project noone knew about, as far as community goes I find this funny and exciting. True, the project's owner may object to it, but the truth is that no details were given. No need to jump on each other's throat, I think, and really no need for reversion threats... things have been bumpy in the past, let's try and be more courteous.
::@TFM: (btw, please write in english. I get most of it in german, but not all of it and not all the time) Although I don't think this was a serious, ehm, offense, please do try and keep in mind other members' sensitivities. If someone lets you into a project that is under development, there's no point in announcing it before consulting with them... don'y you think?? [[User:Gryzor|Gryzor]] 19:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Ok, no problem, in future all in english. I was not thinking that a little change in this site will force that strong reactions. So I'm happy that some guys have still strong interest at FutureOS ;-) However there is enough time. I can wait and if the time is right I will add some updates here. Bye, [[TFM|TFM]].
== Discussion about the content ==
Please don't introduce errors in this article without discuss it here before. Gryzor, if you think FutureOS hat no GUI please provide evidence for it. FutureOS uses a mouse-pointer, icons and a explorer-lile file window. So it's not so different to windows. If you thinks that ms windows has a GUI then FutureOS has also a GUI. Please start to discuss here first and don't vandalize the article. You had your fun, please become serious again. [[TFM|TFM]]
:Again tryint to tutor me... man, you really have no sense, do you? You're like a small kid throwing himself onto the wall hoping it will come down... FutureOS does use a mouse. Icons are not icons like in any other GUI-oriented OS, since they're just immovable little pictures with functions that are NOT the functions of icons, but those of BUTTONS. And so you could even just remove them and have label buttons to do the same work. The explorer-like window is not a window since it's not manipulated in any way; it's just a section of the screen. So what are you left with? A mouse cursor! Mmmm, not quite enough.... But, as I said, I really don't get it: since you deride SymbOS for all its graphical niceties, why do you insist on calling FutureOS' interface a GUI? Don't you realise that if you compare the two you stand no chance? [[User:Gryzor|Gryzor]] 07:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
::OMG! I think it´s time to... You know what I mean? But it´s really funny, some kind of BigBrother here... [[Villain|Villain]]
:::I agree 100%. [[TFM|TFM]].<br>
:This is getting out of control... if you have any ideas of how to protect the wiki... :( [[User:Gryzor|Gryzor]] 07:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
@TFM: Could you please stop creating multiple fake accounts? [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] :Yup. Updater used the same IP as a previous user. What is more, he AGAIN reverted changes that had nothing to do with the qualities of FutureOS. This time TFM was a bit more careful and actually read the article, but he also reverted structural changes I had done to keep the section contents on topic... tsk! EDIT: Oh, I just saw that Updater used the same IP that TFM uses on the forum... [[User:Gryzor|Gryzor]] 07:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
::Yes, Updater is nothing else, than an alternative possibility to access the CPC Wiki. Well, if you stop blocking me just for fun (or for nonrespecting another POV), then I will see no further need to uses something else than my account. Thats the principle of cause and effect. [[TFM|TFM]].
:::So if this will be my Wiki, and i will be admin i will do the following: Remove the whole FOS-Article for 6 months with an information to the visitors, that they can visit futureos.de for more informations about fos. But bann that crap out of the wiki for 6 months. Maybe TFM will then calm down a bit. So he can write what he want about FOS on his own homepage. Kangaroo22.12.208
== Removing not supported hardware ==
The following pointer based HID hardware should be removed from the list of "supported hardware". This hardware is not suported by the "os" itself, as applications can't use or access it by themself with the help of fos. This hardware is (if at all) only used by a sub-program, the fileselector module. The support itself is not an "OS feature" at all. So if you call fos an "OS" it's not possible to mention this hardware as "supported". Please correct me, if I am wrong. Otherwise the following sections should be removed.
'''Graphic Tablet'''
*Hegetron [[Grafpad II|Grafpad II]]
'''Joysticks<br>'''
*Analog Joystick (6128 Plus)*Digital Joystick 1
*Digital Joystick 2
<br>'''Light-Pens<br>'''
*Lindy
<br>'''Mice'''
*[[SYMBiFACE II:PS/2 mouse|PS/2 mouse]] (Symbiface)
'''Trackballs'''
*[[Atari-ST mouse adapter|Atari ST]] (Schneider Magazin)
*[[Marconi|Marconi]]
[[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 02:11, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
:Indeed you are wrong, all these devices are supported by FutureOS, just connect it to the CPC. You can use them to control the Desktop or for foreigen programs. Naturally the Plus devices (analogue joystick etc.) are only usable by a CPC Plus. All devices can be accesseb by OS routines. See documentation. So I have to correct your updates, because they are just wrong. And by the way I'm waiting for an excuse for your insulting phrases. [[TFM|TFM]].
::There is (or at least there was) no way to ask for the X and Y position of the mouse pointer in an application. Or can you tell me, why the Grafpad can't be used in GMSK? If the OS would provide a general pointer-based HID support, the application doesn't need to take care if there is a joystick, a mouse or a grafpad connected. Anyway there are no functions available for an application, where these devices can be used. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 18:59, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:::There is no sense in using a graphic tablet in a sprite converter like GMSK. But if you like this function included I can do that for you. The Grafpad is for entering graphical data or for fast selection. There is a routine (read ROM a documentation) which provide the desired features, it deals with keyboard and different joysticks. Only for the Grafpad there is at the moment no application available, but why don't you make one? [[TFM|TFM]].
::::Thanks, that is what I wanted to know. So there is no routine in the OS available for applications to support the grafpad. But this is what I already said. So the grafpad, the mouse etc. can be removed from the "support" list. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 21:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::However, this is NOT the question. FutureOS supports the Graphpad and the other applications. So please let me restore the article now. [[TFM|TFM]].
::::::Not the OS supports it but the file selector module. This doesn't help me in an application at all. Or is Fos only a program starter? If it's only a program starter, then I am fine with the "support" list. Somehow it seems, that you don't know, what an OS is at all? [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 21:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC):::::::Well, I think that for calmness' sake at least, if it is indeed supported and working in the file selector we can leave it in... But, GMSK - if there's no use for the Pad in it then why mention it supports it? It can support lemon and strawberry flavors as well, but it just doesn't make any sense... [[User:Gryzor|Gryzor]]
::::::::Is Fos an OS or not?? If it's a program starter then yes, let's leave it. If not, this has to be removed. Or let's rename it from OS to program starter. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 22:05, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::I still can't found routines for requesting the X and Y coordinates of any pointer based HID device. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 22:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
<br>The following hardware doesn't seem to be supported as well:
*[[CPC Booster|CPC Booster(+)]] *HD64180 Coprocessor card
*IDE hard discs (173 KB/s with [[IDE8255|IDE8255]], 162 KB/s with [[CPC-IDE|CPC-IDE]] or [[SYMBiFACE II|SYMBiFACE II]])
Regarding the last one, there maybe routines for reading and writing some single sectors (btw. such small routines can be downloaded here: [[SYMBiFACE II:IDE routines|SYMBiFACE_II:IDE_routines]] ;-)). This is a feature of a BIOS, not of an OS. Both IDE interfaces are still completely useless for applications in Fos, as long as they don't implement the filesystem by themself (which would be quite crazy of course).
:::I didn't get an answer here yet. So can I remove this hardware now, too? [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 21:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:Further CBM is DEFINITLY a part of the OS. As the programmer of FutureOS I know it better than a person who wants again to fight aginst a concurent OS. I have also to revert the text.::No, CBM is not a part of Fos :-) It is a piece of source code which has to be copied into the source code of the application. Would you say, that all RSX extensions ever developed in history are "a part" of Locomotive Basic, and would you list all these in the Locomotive Basic article?? No, definitely not! [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 18:59, 12 January 2009 (UTC):::Hello? You want to know it better than the programmer? If CBM is not a part of FutureOS, then is sos not existing at all. Do you know what you say? Think about this!::::Seems, that you don't know the difference between a library and an OS component. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 21:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)::::Btw, CBM is not even like an RSX extension. As it has to be linked into the applications source code directly, applications are not updated automatically, if CBM is updated. You will have to compile the application with the new CBM sources again to make the update happen. And this is, what you call "a part of the OS"? :-) [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 19:09, 12 January 2009 (UTC):::::A RSX extension. NO, really NOT. You are absolutely wrong, in CBM only the text (and very few routines) are linked to the application. Only the things that are DIFFERENT in every application. The main code is in the ROMs. And who cares about ROM or not ROM. You are on the woodway. [[TFM|TFM]].::::::If I use a textoutput routine of the CPC-OS in my RSX extension, yes, then I use a routine of the OS. That still doesn't make my RSX extension to a part of the OS.::::::Further only the compatible and tested ROM expansions are listed. Joysticks are not ROM boards. And for sure the sos is not able to use them all. Or have you tried Super ROMbard Plus (provides ROMs with ROM selects 16-31)? The world it not that simple as you think.
::::::What's the problem with ROM select 16-31? Btw, why did you mention SymbOS here? (which "supports" 1-63 btw., but stupid to mention such nonsense). I still don't see any reason for listing the rom expansion. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 18:59, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Nice insult to call me stupid. Now Gryzor please stop him insulting me! However, ignoring that insult. Also SOS needs at least one ROM with a number between 0 and 15, you didn't know that? [[TFM|TFM]].:::::::: Man, can you stop acting so silly for a bit? You DO know he didn't call YOU stupid, but the matter at hand. [[User:Gryzor|Gryzor]] 08:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::::: LOL. No, I didn't call you stupid. I said, it's stupid to mention, that SymbOS detects its Roms between 1-63. And for initialising the first rom, EVERY rom needs to be placed between 1-15 for its initialisation, if there is no patch for the CPC-OS in any other Rom between 1-15. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 21:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
And please stop insulting me and FutureOS. Since you feel insulted by every piece of dust, you should better know how to deal with words. You behave here like a little child that tries to beat up the toy of another child. And sorry for any insults, if I made some by accident with out even knowing. [[TFM|TFM]].
:TFM, why do you have this persecution mania? Why do you always think, that there is a "fight" against you and your fos? If something is not correct, it should be corrected. Btw, you made just a simple revert of all changes, even of changes, which only corrected the article without removing "supported" stuff etc. That doesn't make any sense, so I will undo your revert again. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 18:59, 12 January 2009 (UTC)Yes, you made the same! You deletet all my improvements. You mentioned some things, like to big support list and you don't keep the improvements. So let's bring it now to an good state and then we can STEP BY STEP make the article better. Ok? [[TFM|TFM]].
::Please read carefully! I didn't call anybody a child. I was talking about my subjective impression of the acting of another person. So why don't you ban Prodatron for some time, the effect would be the same. It would be peace again. He is insulting me constantly (by the way, you have been calling me that often stupid in the forum that I can't count it. Also you have used the F-word against me). So I'm the last person who should be banned because of insulting anybody elso. My forms are still some of the best here. But please don't start now a "We will calculate who was insulting more" discussion here. That would be to childish for me. And I DON'T call you a child. If you think that calling somebody a child is an insult, then you're just insulting children. I don't want to talk about the abilities of the brains of children too much, but be sure, they can do much more than you think and much more than a mature brain. [[TFM|TFM]].
::: I really can't make head or tails out of this passage so I'm giving up, but you did say "you behave like a little child". Are you totally nuts or you think we are nuts maybe? [[User:Gryzor|Gryzor]] 08:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
== Ask first, then update the article ==
:::So you got a new girlfriend? My sincere congratulations. Maybe now you can calm down a bit and make more sense when you write something. As for Americans knowing their language at its best, well, allow me to openly sneer at that. And please do advise your girlfriend to never use such a patronizing phrase when talking to someone outside N.O. - assuming, that is, that it's considered OK in N.O. But, really, it doesn't take so much gray matter to understand why it's insulting. Oh! And calling yourself 'the wiser man' does not make it so. Is it SO DARN DIFFICULT for you to understand that saying something doesn't it make so??? Tsk...[[User:Gryzor|Gryzor]]
<br>
::::This is indeed a very good question! Now please ask yourself the same question! Surely it's not easy for you, because you are (as highest Admin of the CPC Wiki) in a role that must tell the last word in discussions. But do you really think that you're always right? Don't you think that your positon teases you to think that you're right, but is there also a thought in your mind that is questioning you if you are REALLY right? Think back at the GUI discussion and other things. Do you think you are right, only because you write it in an internet site? Question yourself my friend. (And there is no polemics. You seem to be thinking, and I appreciate this. But only more questions can induce more thinking, What do you think?). Well, for sure I did overreact here in the week I have been very sick, so I maybe saw too much attacks or insults. I'm always questioning me if I do right or not. Do you the same? Bye the way... I didn't call myself wiser, this is just a citation, may you know it, may not. I don't think that we are so different, me make the same errors and we do the same great work for the CPC. However, honest greets! A [[TFM|tfm]] that is looking forward to establish a positive kind of communication here.<br>
pdt stop deleting my applications without direct links!
:Demo videos are no applications. Should we mention every SoundTrakker song in the SoundTracker article? No. And Hero was not coded for Fos. Nice, that it can be started from Fos, but that's only because it doesn't require an OS at all after loading. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 21:14, 12 January 2009 (UTC)::Demos are maybe no applications, but this section of the article is called 'Applications / Demos / Games'. So I can rename this part of the page. This special version of Hero is made for FutureOS, you can use the display header function to look at the Icon of this Game. However it runs under FutureOS. May you didn't know this facts, but please look at the facts more carfull BEFORE altering a site. [[TFM|TFM]].
:::Ok, if you really need to mention every single media file in this list it's fine for me. I could blow up the SoundTrakker article, the SymPlay article, the SymAmp article, the SymSee article etc. etc. by the factor 100 then, but that's just silly, never mind. But: Adding some bytes into the unused area of the Amsdos header of Hero does NOT make it to a FutureOS application! So remove it again. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 22:11, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
=== To summarize all up: ===
- It is not ok to introduce a variety of changes and none of this is right. - There is no need to delete names of some demos, programs, applications - There is no need to delete the CBM section, please change the text. - No need to delete regulary supported hardware, which everybody can use. If there is a need to improve the FutureOS article, the do it step by step and in agreement with other controbutors. There is no sense in just deleting parts of this article. The reasons provided are just nonsense. If somebody wants to improve then he should read the documentation first. This way less problems will appear. [[TFM|TFM]].
== CBM - a part of FutureOS ==
Why is CBM a part of the OS?
*90% of the needed routines are located in the core ROMs of the FutureOS. <br>*The different text-blocks (in all different languages) part of the single program. Since every single application uses different sentences, this is - no doubt - useful.
*Few routines of CBM are part of every single application. Why?&nbsp;It makes all applications more flexible.
:It's obvious, that textoutput and keyboard routines are in the Fos rom and not in CBM. This still doesn't make it to a part of Fos. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 22:20, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
::Nobody is talking about textoutput routines. There are specail routines, only used by CBM, And NO, I will not provide the source code of FutureOS to you to proove this. So why can't you understand that CBM is an ESSENTIAL part of the OS? What do you expect from a part of the OS? Must it be in ROM? In this case the disc version of SOS wouldn't be an OS at all.
::However, there is no reason to DELETE the section. I will rewrite it now. [[TFM|TFM]].
:::What's so difficult about this? CBM is like CEUS. It uses of course OS routines, it's an UI-extension for the OS, but it is not part of the OS. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 22:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Ok, if you don't like to see it as a part of the OS, you can see it that way. But that's no justification to delete the section of the article. Can you understand this??? If you like write it in another way, but don't delete it. Is it that hard to understand? Greets, [[TFM|TFM]].
Still didn't receive an answer here:
<br> *CPC Booster support *Coprocessor card support *Pointer-based HID device support (mouses, grafpad, etc.)
*IDE support (filesystem)
And I am speaking about "OPERATING SYSTEM" like support, not about some help with simple INs/OUTs! [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 22:43, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
<br> :I wrote it numerous times before, but for you I will do it again.... :*The CPC Booster support is minimal, since the CPC-Booster itself provides all needed drivers or functions. :*The Coprocessor card support is something that I will not tell you, because it is strictly confidental. I can tell you only that much, that you can run programs in an Multiprocessor environment. Tell me if you own such a card, then I will send you examples of program or provide links (see Yahou Group). If you like delete it, but I will not tell you my secrets. :*Different Mouses and the Grafpad are supported by the OS. The OS itself uses this routines for the Desktop. Applicatons can use these routines in a normal way. Please look in the ROM documentation.
:*The IDE support is collected in the IDE ROM of FutureOS. The ROM and its documentation can be downloaded at the Yahoo Group of FutureOS.
:Are you pleased now? Or can I help you in another way? Don't hesitate to ask me. [[TFM|TFM]].
::No, not really. I still can't find any routine for requesting the X/Y position of the mouse/grafpad pen whatever. I still can't find any IDE harddisc support beside some simple BIOS-like sector read/write routines, which is useless for applications. What you wrote about the Coprocessor card is just a joke, isn't it? This is a Wiki, not a place for some bad James Bond stories. And as I said, I still don't see any CPC Booster support. WHAT do you support here? It's funny, that you always avoid a real answer here. Btw, I can't download anything from your group anymore, as you banned me, but I guess I have still the actual documentations. So as long as there is no real answer the entries will be removed. [[User:Prodatron|Prodatron]] 10:01, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Owning a special type of hardware NOT, doesn't legalize the deletion of compatible and supported hardware out of the list. Pdt please stop deleting parts of this article! If you just don't know if something is compatible or not, then ask first. Don't delete by fun.
The Inicron RAM-expansion runs well with FutureOS (ask Mr.AMS). The RAM7 RAM expansion was tested at Klassentreffen 2001. Eliot had one with him. FutureOS runs well with it. [[TFM|TFM]]. = READ THIS! = Everyone, but especially you, '''TFM''', try and watch how you reply and what formatting you use. '''Every time you reply to something, you MUST put a ':' in front of every paragraph of yours '''so as to have a readable output. If you reply to a reply that already has a ':' in front then you must insert '''2 ':' in front of EVERY of your paragraphs. Please try and keep it tidy. [[User:Gryzor|Gryzor]] 08:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)'''
= READ THIS! Stop deleting Demos =
