Difference between revisions of "Talk:FutureOS"

Revision as of 12:57, 12 January 2009

Questions...

Hmm.. are there any applications for Future OS? And can i really add any device and it will be recommended by the system without any device driver? Unbelievable!! and much better than SymbOS then, isn't it? (Forgott to sign.. sorry.. but as i don't fear anything... here i am... Kangaroo MusiQue of HJT 07:59, 28 August 2006 (CEST)

First you can't compare SymbOS and FutureOS so easy. Software for FutureOS is availabe in the Yahoo-Group, where you can download it. Or just look at the FutureOS article, go there to applications.

And yes, I try to support nearly all hardware for the CPC. See article, see compatibility list. Ok, very few is still missing, but this will change soon I hope.

About features: Ok, I have finished the new documentation in english and german, you can download it at wwww.futureos.de

 I have no time to explain the 126th time where some OS function is. read the manual, the new version is out some time.

Greets to all honest CPC sceners,

TFM

Please try to keep your tone down. I'm letting this here as an example of what NOT to say. RTFM is NOT part of the language that will be tolerated here, if we want to keep a flame war out of our wiki; so please keep this in mind. And please don't jump to conclusions - several users still do not know about signing their entries! It seems to me the original poster was more positive than negative, so you could try and calmly answer to his questions, otherwise there's no reason in replying at all. This is NOT a debate room, and fights will NOT (NOT!) be welcome here. You do not need to be apologetic (as you are in a couple of points) about anything that FutureOS may be lacking, since it's a wonderful system anyhow, but also taking it to the other extreme doesn't exactly help things either.

Best regards,

Gryzor 16:02, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

RTFM means Read The Futureos Manual, so where is the problem? That guy (without name) is allowed to vandalish my text? Why don't you stop him?

Anyhow, and why don't talk about something other very unfair. At the left side, below "the present" there is a line for SymbOS, why not FutueOS. I would like to please you to insert that line.

Greets

TFM

Can we please stop hiding behind our finger? We all know what RTFM means, so please drop it. I assume almost everyone here is of at least average IQ... As I said, this languages is NOT permitted on board. What's more, what do you mean about that guy being allowed to vandalise your text? What did he vandalise? What should I stop? I think there might be a big misunderstanding here... Anyhow, about the SIdebar, I don't think it's 'very unfair', as I've explained before. FutureOS may be indeed very, very nice a project and I find myself playing with it the whole time, but SymbOS, with the existing Symbiface, has long ago reached critical mass and is very impressive and popular, that's why it had its own link. This is NOT an issue of 'put my project up there along with the others', it's trying to organise things in a better way. In any case, the Sidebar was changed a lot, I'm going to look into it... Gryzor 08:16, 11 August 2006 (CEST)

That's something, which came to my mind very often! We should change the "SymbOS" link in the left menu to "Operating Systems". Then we can have a list of OSs for the CPC there. It would be a better entry point! --Octoate 20:40, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

Hm, I don't know. In this case you have to place all categories from the "serious software" articel in the sidebar. -- Prodatron 21:00, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

Argh... ;) --Octoate 21:24, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

What's about respecting some rules?

As this is not Wikipedia but our own scene CPCWiki, I wouldn't like to force the articles to follow strict rules, but at least the following two rules should be respected by everyone:

• no advertisment-like phrases
• no false information

The following parts in this article should be removed and replaced in a section like "possible plans for the future":

• IDE support (mentioned several times, and first I mixed v8 with v9, but as it should only be a possible part of v9 [and now even v8 isn't released], it will not be implemented before 2007 or later, right?)
• CPC Booster support (you can't call an entry in the port monitor "support")
• Multi tasking (I couldn't find any references)

If I am wrong, and these features are already implemented in FutureOS and ready for download, please provide us a link.

Some other parts should also be removed:

• One-drive restriction of other OSs (nearly every OS can do this, even Amsdos allows drive letters in a path)
• Advertisment-like phrases (e.g. "FutureOS is for programmers who want to use the CPC at its limits" and other ones; these should be better placed on a homepage but not in a Wiki)

-- Prodatron 00:05, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

I sense a scene fight coming on, I'm afraid... I do not wish to take any part in it, especially since I do not know anything about the common history of projects, but I hope it stays off the wiki!

Well, in general it is quite easy to follow some necessary rules, so I am not afraid about fights. -- Prodatron 10:24, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

I'll have to agree with some of Prodatron's remarks. The article needs heavy editing (I have altered several points myself, more is needed) so as to not appear as a commercial for FutureOS but more like an objective article. Also, at points it becomes more of a manual than an article on the OS itself.

That said, even in Symbiface there was the phrase: It provides nearly everything you need to change your CPC into a powerful work station! which is more of the same :)

Yes, that's right. I think someone just copied & pasted this from the homepage ;) -- Prodatron 10:24, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

To get back to Prodatron's remarks, if his points are valid the article should be corrected. If system .9, as it is called in the article, indeed refers to FutureOS v9 then I also think that it should be re-written, especially since not even v8 has been released (really looking forward to it!).

In general, I would urge ALL contributors who are also developers, to try and keep their usual enthusiasm (read: ego ;) ) at a low, since we are trying to do an objective work and not promote one or the other product... Thanks! Gryzor 09:47, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

I have cleaned up the whole artice, removed advertisment-like phrases, re-wrote sentences that sounded too much like advertising and thigthened the language. Articles should contain no false or biased statements in any form. Keep it clear, true, neutral and objective. This is what I tried to accomplish when editing this article. - 2006-08-09; Gwildor -

Thanks for your effort Gwildor! The article looks a bit more polished now. --Octoate 14:07, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

I think the maximum file size currently is 512KB (19bit). I couldn't find any possibilities to load data from files, which are bigger than 512KB. Why is 16MB/24bit mentioned in the article? Also a planned feature for the future? -- Prodatron 17:02, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

The maximum file-size depends on the free space on disc-hard-disc or it is limited by a 24 Bit file-length code. Just look at the manual. You can use routines like TEILA or TEISI to load or save files greater then 576 KB. TFM

Looks good now

Thanx to everybodys' effort the article looks a lot better now. I wouldn't call "CPC Booster support" like this, but who cares. What's about summarising some very small sections and maybe removing some user-manual-like sentences? -- Prodatron 17:44, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

Sumarised all sections which contained only 1 or 2 sentences and removed the FioLib text in its own article. -- Prodatron 19:16, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

Thank you for your excellent help. TFM

Protection

This part of the discussion has been deleted; please do not roll back.

The reason I deleted it is because it turned into a flame, and also because some people do not understand how to format their edits by using semi-colons to keep the thread flow easy to understand. As a result it was a flame that was very hard to follow. I will just keep the following:

The article will remain locked for the time being. It's really unfortunate that events are taking such a turn, at a time when the wiki is expanding at a good rate, which means that someone will have to keep an eye on all that is being written. Let's see if the discussion cools down a bit, then decide.

That said, the initial article and subsequent edits were nothing less than shameless plugs for FutureOS. If you want to publish a plug, put it on your Profile page -- provided you create one and that you do not post anonymously! Why is it so darn hard to understand this??? Gryzor 19:42, 29 August 2006 (CEST)

How to plug for something, which costs no money?

I can also get different religions for free, nevertheless I want that someone tells me in a fundamentalistic way why his religion is best. The fact that something is free doesn´t mean that the wiki rules don´t have to be respected.

Right! So respect your own rules. Maybe the article wasn't ideal for wiki at first. But better an article that could be corrected than nothing to read. And the comparison about religion is very low under my level.

Flaming

Will it be possible, to stop flaming around that future os thing? I hate it to see people fighting for nothing :D So maybe it will be the best to protect the whole article and the talk-area to stop annoying and useless posts from both parties Kangaroo MusiQue of HJT 14:06, 5 September 2006 (CEST)

Well, but who started the flaming? ;-)) [1], [2] I think at least the talk page shouldn't be protected, otherwise I am afraid, that it will continue on the general discussion page. -- Prodatron 15:02, 5 September 2006 (CEST)

 :-) It was just my first reaction on the original-article as i read it. And that where logical questions, after reading an advertisement-text on the wiki for a "ultimate OS" with the best-features around, wich doesnt exist anyway in this form :) Kangaroo MusiQue of HJT 20:31, 5 September 2006 (CEST)

Yes the flaming is stupid. That's why the article was locked, but I think that talk pages should really rarely be locked... indeed, if one wants, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to keep them from flaming one way or the other. Gryzor 17:25, 5 September 2006 (CEST)

You (Kangaroo) and Rode start the flaming. So you BOTH have to stop it. Nobody else is flaming around. TFM

So that is NOT true.. i just mentioned, that future os must be a very great thing and much better than other OSses around, cause your text telled me, that FOS supports any device plugged in without needing a driver and so on. As Rode has written, that he has tried to work with FOS and found things out that arent true within your advertisement text, and after his new FOSuggestion-article looks much better than the original from TFM, i personally think, that i shall call you Monster-Marketing-Machinae (MMM) to keep the traditions :-) Kangaroo MusiQue of HJT 08:02, 8 September 2006 (CEST)

Well, what Rode has told here are just lies. Everybody can easiely proove this. I never sayd "any device", I sayd "much devices" - and that is true. Please don't talk about things you have never used. Why? If you ever had used FutureOS, you wouldn't argue that way. And about marketing, I don't want to earn money with FutureOS. Look at your cmo homepage and you see what is MMM! TFM

Unlocking the FutureOS article

Since many changes have been introcuced in this article, which aren't true, this article should be unlocked again - at least for me, the originatior of FutureOS. TFM

The Problem about that is, that YOU arent telling the truth about the features of your OS and make the article an advertisement. So IMHO its better to let others write about the FOS, so its more near reality :-) Nothing personal against you, but it looks like, that you are a bit to enthusiastic with your own shit :) Kangaroo MusiQue of HJT 19:25, 5 September 2006 (CEST)

Stop! I must admit that the first version of the article was a copy of an article I wrote for an english papermag, because I had not the time to do all the work again. But I NEVER wrote something untrue here. If you don't know FutureOS like me, then you should ask first, instead of flaming around. I'm very sorry that you can't be objective. TFM

Somehow his stamina is impressive - or lets say very psycho. I think no one else would "fight" so hard for a 15 years old and completely outdated project today even in the retro scene, as it is one of the worst software examples of the old days. Regarding the "truth", even the actual article is not true and the first one was just a cheeky piece of advertisement. Please have a look at the new version, it could be a better base. Sad that this strange guy with his bizarre bunch of routines is the only one, who behaves negative in the CPCWiki. - User:Rode

Ahh.. and GO get a WIKI-Account instead of posting the shit anonymous its NOT SO HARD, it DOESNT HURT and it will HELP others to see your GOOD WILL (or your willy) Kangaroo MusiQue of HJT 19:25, 5 September 2006 (CEST)

Finally he found out, how to create an account. But it seems, that he still has to learn a lot of more things, like the behaviour in talk pages etc. It's interesting, that this is the only problematic article in the whole wiki, but as I could see it was always the same with this person in the CPC history. As we know, that he will rollback the article into its original advertisement form, it shouldn't be unlocked for sure. I wrote a more objective version of the article some days ago, and I will suggest it shortly. Rode

See FutureOS/Suggestion1

Dear Rode don't talk about behaviour, because yours is pretty bad. As bad as your suggestion about the FutureOS article. It is known that you don't like FutureOS, this is the reaseon why this article is problematic. Now we have the same problems here like in german Wikipedia before - thanks to you! I would greatly apprecialte if you could leave us here. Only without you it is possible to make this article better, this would help us all. If you have personal problems with FutureOS (or me) then this here is NOT the place for your personal war. TFM

Silicon Storm

Silicon Storm... What is it? Never heard about before...  Villain

@TFM, lease provide some sources about this mystical "silicon storm" during the next 7 days, otherwise we have to revert the entry again. Prodatron

 Silicon.SToRM is the project name of the SymbiFace III prototype boards. The informations regarding that name in this article are substantially wrong, as the
 SF3 / Silicon.SToRM provides neither a RAM-Extension, a ROM-Extension nor something else, that is allready provided by the SF2.
 Informations about that prototype should be considered absolutly confidential until i release them myself to the public. to just avoid such missinformations !
 Unfortunatly i talked to TFM about my current work. Not a good idea as it shows. Thank you much TFM!  -  I reverted the article to the previous state.  Dr.Zed

@Dr. Zed: Sorry dass ich das Wort verwendet habe, hatte eben gerade Zeit und wollte die Seite auf dem aktuellen Stand halten. Ich habe ja sonnst nichts kommentiert. No informations have been provided here at all, nothing bad has happened.

@Prodatron: "We have to revert" - ja Euer Majestät! Your luck that it is far under my level to treat the SymbOS article like you try to treat the FutureOS article. It was an error to support you with my Floppy Disc routines for SymbOS, just to see you - my friend - falling me in my back again and again. TFM

What kind of reaction is this?? We just wanted to know, what mystical hardware this is. And if it wouldn't exist, there is of course no place for it in the CPC-Wiki. That was everything I wrote, nothing else!?! Crazy reaction...

Anyway as we see, you added again a hardware in your blowed-up 'support' list, which you don't support. You even didnt know about the features of the SYMBiFACE III at all (a lot of people already know :-D) and there are no specification available yet, but - of course as usual! - your Fos supports all of it... Wow! Why are you always doing this again and again? What kind of behaviour is this?

Oh yes: Your FDC routines (which I don't use btw): Hello?? Did you forget that I also gave you my IDE routines at the same time? That was 2004. Oh man, that's so long ago! You wrote it in all the different lists all the time during all these years, but there is still no FAT file system support available for the public in Fos (ok, maybe in your mystical secret lab) Please note: One of your problems is to post too much hoax. At one point people start stopping believing you at all... Prodatron

- Dear Prodatron, maybe you don't have recognized it. But you behave here like the original owner of the CPCWiki. You impute that something is not existing only because YOU don't know it. Do you know all in this world?

- If you would ask like every other person would do... but you issue an ultimatum! Are you the owner of the CPCWiki?

- About your enduring polemics.... I think really nobody here is willing to read again and again your polemics agains my person or FutureOS. Now I think that FutureOS is much better than I ever thought, only by knowing that you try to fight it in that unfair way.

- FDC routines: Guess you are right, if you would use them correct, then SOS would be faster. Your error. At least my routines were teaching you how to program the FDC. I can proove this with one of your Emails.

- Your IDE routines: Some low level routines yes. I never used them. I have much faster ones (See IDE ROM, free downloadable). Don't forget FutureOS can use the second register set of the Z80, that is not possible under SOS.

- The actual IDE ROM for FutureOS can be downloaded. Right, there is no complete FAT support, who cares? I prefer to make a game at the moment. Thats more fun for me. If you have a problem with this, thats not my problem.

- A hoax? Can you please provide hard facts or do you just want to discredite me? I think people believe me, because I'm a honest man, straight and correct. But your behaviour is still unappropriate! What a pity to see you going down that poor way.

Finally I relly think this discussion is fruitless, lets stop it here. TFM.

I neither use SymbOS nor FutureOS but I honestly have to say that in my eyes it is really very, very strange to mention hardware that is supported by FutureOS that not even exists as a prototype. And what is also really strange is the fact that suddenly a new user appeared (Xyran80) who is editing the SymbOS article. Sometimes I don´t believe in coincidence and really want to ask if all this bullshit is really necessary... Villain

Villain, to you happens at the moment the same mistake like to pdt before. Only because YOU don't know it, it doesn't mean that it is not existing. I'm not allowed to say if there is a prototype or not (now try to use your mind...) or about any features. I got strictly confidental informations and to mention the name in the hardware list was too much. To mix up several parts of some thing was indeed my error, but nothing else. Even if you or pdt try to get more informations from me, I'm not allowed to talk. Cheap tricks don't work, provacate somebody else, please not me.

The other topic... really! Great! Haaahahahahahaha! Thanks for the hint. Hey guys, now you really have done it. Seems that you have activated somebody who is on my side. And I also really DO NOT believe in coincidence! Sometimes the universe is just fair. And the best thing is, I just must not move only one finger. Hahahahahaha! Thank you all for this wonderfull day! TFM.

Guys, guys,PLEASE CALM DOWN EVERYBODY! I don't think that TFM commited such a crime. He hinted at some project noone knew about, as far as community goes I find this funny and exciting. True, the project's owner may object to it, but the truth is that no details were given. No need to jump on each other's throat, I think, and really no need for reversion threats... things have been bumpy in the past, let's try and be more courteous.

@TFM: (btw, please write in english. I get most of it in german, but not all of it and not all the time) Although I don't think this was a serious, ehm, offense, please do try and keep in mind other members' sensitivities. If someone lets you into a project that is under development, there's no point in announcing it before consulting with them... don'y you think?? Gryzor 19:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, no problem, in future all in english. I was not thinking that a little change in this site will force that strong reactions. So I'm happy that some guys have still strong interest at FutureOS ;-) However there is enough time. I can wait and if the time is right I will add some updates here. Bye, TFM.

Discussion about the content

Please don't introduce errors in this article without discuss it here before. Gryzor, if you think FutureOS hat no GUI please provide evidence for it. FutureOS uses a mouse-pointer, icons and a explorer-lile file window. So it's not so different to windows. If you thinks that ms windows has a GUI then FutureOS has also a GUI.

Please start to discuss here first and don't vandalize the article. You had your fun, please become serious again. 

TFM 

Again tryint to tutor me... man, you really have no sense, do you? You're like a small kid throwing himself onto the wall hoping it will come down... FutureOS does use a mouse. Icons are not icons like in any other GUI-oriented OS, since they're just immovable little pictures with functions that are NOT the functions of icons, but those of BUTTONS. And so you could even just remove them and have label buttons to do the same work. The explorer-like window is not a window since it's not manipulated in any way; it's just a section of the screen. So what are you left with? A mouse cursor! Mmmm, not quite enough.... But, as I said, I really don't get it: since you deride SymbOS for all its graphical niceties, why do you insist on calling FutureOS' interface a GUI? Don't you realise that if you compare the two you stand no chance? Gryzor 07:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

OMG! I think it´s time to... You know what I mean? But it´s really funny, some kind of BigBrother here... 

Villain

I agree 100%. TFM.

This is getting out of control... if you have any ideas of how to protect the wiki... :( Gryzor 07:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

@TFM: Could you please stop creating multiple fake accounts? Prodatron

Yup. Updater used the same IP as a previous user. What is more, he AGAIN reverted changes that had nothing to do with the qualities of FutureOS. This time TFM was a bit more careful and actually read the article, but he also reverted structural changes I had done to keep the section contents on topic... tsk! EDIT: Oh, I just saw that Updater used the same IP that TFM uses on the forum... Gryzor 07:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Updater is nothing else, than an alternative possibility to access the CPC Wiki. Well, if you stop blocking me just for fun (or for nonrespecting another POV), then I will see no further need to uses something else than my account. Thats the principle of cause and effect. TFM.

So if this will be my Wiki, and i will be admin i will do the following: Remove the whole FOS-Article for 6 months with an information to the visitors, that they can visit futureos.de for more informations about fos. But bann that crap out of the wiki for 6 months. Maybe TFM will then calm down a bit. So he can write what he want about FOS on his own homepage. Kangaroo22.12.208

Dear Kangaroo, it's not me who should calm down. I'm still a peaceful man. TFM.

Removing not supported hardware

The following pointer based HID hardware should be removed from the list of "supported hardware". This hardware is not suported by the "os" itself, as applications can't use or access it by themself with the help of fos. This hardware is (if at all) only used by a sub-program, the fileselector module. The support itself is not an "OS feature" at all. So if you call fos an "OS" it's not possible to mention this hardware as "supported".

Please correct me, if I am wrong. Otherwise the following sections should be removed.

Indeed you are wrong, all these devices are supported by FutureOS, just connect it to the CPC. You can use them to control the Desktop or for foreigen programs. Naturally the Plus devices (analogue joystick etc.) are only usable by a CPC Plus. All devices can be accesseb by OS routines. See documentation. So I have to correct your updates, because they are just wrong. And by the way I'm waiting for an excuse for your insulting phrases. TFM.

Graphic Tablet

• Hegetron Grafpad II

Joysticks

• Analog Joystick (6128 Plus)
• Digital Joystick 1
• Digital Joystick 2

Light-Pens

• Dk'tronics
• Happy-Computer
• Lindy

Mouses

• AMX_Mouse
• Atari ST (Schneider Magazin)
• CPC-Mousepack (Reisware)
• CPC-Mousepack 2.0 (Reisware)
• Geos (c64)
• PS/2 mouse (Symbiface)

Trackballs

• Atari ST (Schneider Magazin)
• Marconi

Prodatron 02:11, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

The following hardware doesn't seem to be supported as well:

• CPC Booster(+) 
• HD64180 Coprocessor card
• IDE hard discs (173 KB/s with IDE8255, 162 KB/s with CPC-IDE or SYMBiFACE II)

Regarding the last one, there maybe routines for reading and writing some single sectors (btw. such small routines can be downloaded here: SYMBiFACE_II:IDE_routines ;-)). This is a feature of a BIOS, not of an OS. Both IDE interfaces are still completely useless for applications in Fos, as long as they don't implement the filesystem by themself (which would be quite crazy of course).

Regarding the Rom expansions, I don't understand the reason, why they are listed, too? Only because of the fact, that Fos requires 4 roms to be able to run? The other thing is, that they are all compatible, so it's senseless to list them all. It would be the same like mentioning all Atari-compatible Digital-Joysticks (Competition Pro, Quickshot, Jet Fighter etc.) in the Joystick section. Seems, that these entries are only for blowing up the list.

Prodatron 13:58, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Again you're wrong. The IDE support is in the IDE ROM of FutureOS. Everybody can download it. The CPC Booster support is maybe few, but no questioin still existing in the core OS ROMs.

Further CBM is DEFINITLY a part of the OS. As the programmer of FutureOS I know it better than a person who wants again to fight aginst a concurent OS. I have also to revert the text.

 Further only the compatible and tested ROM expansions are listed. Joysticks are not ROM boards. And for sure the sos is not able to use them all. Or have you tried Super ROMbard Plus (provides ROMs with ROM selects 16-31)? The world it not that simple as you think.

And please stop insulting me and FutureOS. Since you feel insulted by every piece of dust, you should better know how to deal with words. You behave here like a little child that tries to beat up the toy of another child. And sorry for any insults, if I made some by accident with out even knowing. TFM.

Ask first, then update the article

Dear Prodatron. I can accept that you see FutureOS as an opponent. But this is NO reason to introduce errors to the FutureOS article. Please ask first here at the discussion page! It is NOT ok to just change the article to un unvalid state. Again you show bad forms, please stop that! Now I ask where is Gryzor, the main Wiki Admin? When I write something, that is maybe not completely right, then he jumps up. It seems that you can do what you want here. But everybody who is able to start FutureOS sees what it can do (and what not), so just STOP to criple this article now! TFM.

Next time you insinuate something of the sort and attack me or any moderator you'll have the permanent ban you've been looking for. "Where is Gryzor"? Well, I'm here and following the changes and, up to now, Prodatron has made a pretty good case in everything he has said or done. So I'm now awaiting his reply. I show you the mirror: Ask first, then accuse. Gryzor

Asking for help is not an insult. Why do you feel insulted? I am right at the end? Only a question not an insult, ok? Sorry, usually you're faster, therefore I asked for you, No sentence was ment as an insult at all. Please don't feel attacked. But now you can show if you are neutral or if you only fight for one (pdt's) side. It's up to you. This shall be no insult at all. A permanent ban would just prove me right and wouldn't cast good light on you.

The changes introduced by Prodatron are simply wrong, Only Ydrazils update is valid, so I kept it. All things in the FutureOS article can be read in the handbook, you can try it by yourself. If you want to see a certain hardware running with it, I can show it at a meeting or you can ask some german sceners that have seen it running well (for example Mr. Ams, Tolkin etc.). So the support is provided for the OS and the applications. TFM.

Well, if you don't see the insult in this, this is mainly your problem, not mine; I'm not here to bring you up and teach you how to socialize. But it was an offense both towards me and Prodatron. You *would* like to think that banning you would prove me wrong, but such preemptive nonsens is above my tiredness threshold at this very moment so I won't argue except: go read some logic and logical fallacies, and let me worry about what casts a good light on me.

If I get this correctly, Prodatron did not say that the hardware is not running under OS; he merele said that it's not a matter of whether it runs or not - that's a different concept from 'being supported'. You could also say that FOS supports the green and colour monitors, so what? GryzorThink nobody (except you) sees an insult here. However, the wiser man gives in. So if you feel insulted, then I want to excuse me for this. If I would handle everything with gloves, I wouldn't be able to make something better at all. And be sure you can't teach me that much. Maybe your english is better, but I don't see much more. When you talk about socializing, then please keep in mind that justice and the creation of an equilibrium is the root of all socializing events. I don't want to teach you anything, but think about it if you like. About the hardware: The Green and Color monitors are supported by the CRTC, thats a part of the hardware, no special software is needed for it. But the devices supported by FutureOS need special drivers. For example the Hegetron Grafpad need drivers that ask the coordinates of the pen. The FutureOS routines ask this coordinates and recalculate them in a way that it is possible to manager a mouse pointer example. The Grafpad can control the mouse pointer of the Desktop?/GUI and applications can access it. So Prodatron is just wrong. The same is given for the other mentioned hardware. Further it is also not ok to delete parts of the software-list just by fun. Now I should fell insulted. But sorry have no time for it. All mentioned programs can be downloaded, therefore I mention this extra now, But usuallly everybody could think that far. However, I should feel insulted here. But I'm not made out of glass. By the way I talked yesterday to my new girl-friend in New Orleans and she told me (like others before) its just a normal sentence to say "Listen to me son...". And I believe the Americans more than pdts friends, because they should know their language at its best. Ok? TFM.