Talk:FutureOS

Hmm.. are there any applications for Future OS? And can i really add any device and it will be recommended by the system without any device driver? Unbelievable!! and much better than SymbOS then, isn't it? (Forgott to sign.. sorry.. but as i don't fear anything... here i am... Kangaroo MusiQue of HJT 07:59, 28 August 2006 (CEST)

Who are you? What is your name? Fear to sign? You seem not to be serious. But I try to answer serious.

First you can't compare SymbOS and FutureOS. They're too different and therefore I use them both.

Software for FutureOS is availabe in the Yahoo-Group, where you can download it.

And yes, I try to support nearly all hardware for the CPC. Ok, some is still missing, but this will change soon I hope.

About features: Ok, I haven't finished the new documentation in english. But if I look at other projects, I have to believe, so believe me too.

That would only be fair.

I have no time to explain the 126th time where some support function ist. RTFM, but the new version coming soon.

Greets to all honest CPC sceners,

TFM

Please try to keep your tone down. I'm letting this here as an example of what NOT to say. RTFM is NOT part of the language that will be tolerated here, if we want to keep a flame war out of our wiki; so please keep this in mind. And please don't jump to conclusions - several users still do not know about signing their entries! It seems to me the original poster was more positive than negative, so you could try and calmly answer to his questions, otherwise there's no reason in replying at all. This is NOT a debate room, and fights will NOT (NOT!) be welcome here. You do not need to be apologetic (as you are in a couple of points) about anything that FutureOS may be lacking, since it's a wonderful system anyhow, but also taking it to the other extreme doesn't exactly help things either.

Best regards,

Gryzor 16:02, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

RTFM means Read The Futureos Manual, so where is the problem? That guy (without name) is allowed to vandalish my text? Why don't you stop him?

Anyhow, and why don't talk about something other very unfair. At the left side, below "the present" there is a line for SymbOS, why not FutueOS. I would like to please you to insert that line.

Greets

TFM

Can we please stop hiding behind our finger? We all know what RTFM means, so please drop it. I assume almost everyone here is of at least average IQ... As I said, this languages is NOT permitted on board. What's more, what do you mean about that guy being allowed to vandalise your text? What did he vandalise? What should I stop? I think there might be a big misunderstanding here... Anyhow, about the SIdebar, I don't think it's 'very unfair', as I've explained before. FutureOS may be indeed very, very nice a project and I find myself playing with it the whole time, but SymbOS, with the existing Symbiface, has long ago reached critical mass and is very impressive and popular, that's why it had its own link. This is NOT an issue of 'put my project up there along with the others', it's trying to organise things in a better way. In any case, the Sidebar was changed a lot, I'm going to look into it... Gryzor 08:16, 11 August 2006 (CEST)

That's something, which came to my mind very often! We should change the "SymbOS" link in the left menu to "Operating Systems". Then we can have a list of OSs for the CPC there. It would be a better entry point! --Octoate 20:40, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

Hm, I don't know. In this case you have to place all categories from the "serious software" articel in the sidebar. -- Prodatron 21:00, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

Argh... ;) --Octoate 21:24, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

As this is not Wikipedia but our own scene CPCWiki, I wouldn't like to force the articles to follow strict rules, but at least the following two rules should be respected by everyone:

• no advertisment-like phrases
• no false information

The following parts in this article should be removed and replaced in a section like "possible plans for the future":

• IDE support (mentioned several times, and first I mixed v8 with v9, but as it should only be a possible part of v9 [and now even v8 isn't released], it will not be implemented before 2007 or later, right?)
• CPC Booster support (you can't call an entry in the port monitor "support")
• Multi tasking (I couldn't find any references)

If I am wrong, and these features are already implemented in FutureOS and ready for download, please provide us a link.

Some other parts should also be removed:

• One-drive restriction of other OSs (nearly every OS can do this, even Amsdos allows drive letters in a path)
• Advertisment-like phrases (e.g. "FutureOS is for programmers who want to use the CPC at its limits" and other ones; these should be better placed on a homepage but not in a Wiki)

-- Prodatron 00:05, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

I sense a scene fight coming on, I'm afraid... I do not wish to take any part in it, especially since I do not know anything about the common history of projects, but I hope it stays off the wiki!

Well, in general it is quite easy to follow some necessary rules, so I am not afraid about fights. -- Prodatron 10:24, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

I'll have to agree with some of Prodatron's remarks. The article needs heavy editing (I have altered several points myself, more is needed) so as to not appear as a commercial for FutureOS but more like an objective article. Also, at points it becomes more of a manual than an article on the OS itself.

That said, even in Symbiface there was the phrase: It provides nearly everything you need to change your CPC into a powerful work station! which is more of the same :)

Yes, that's right. I think someone just copied & pasted this from the homepage ;) -- Prodatron 10:24, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

To get back to Prodatron's remarks, if his points are valid the article should be corrected. If system .9, as it is called in the article, indeed refers to FutureOS v9 then I also think that it should be re-written, especially since not even v8 has been released (really looking forward to it!).

In general, I would urge ALL contributors who are also developers, to try and keep their usual enthusiasm (read: ego ;) ) at a low, since we are trying to do an objective work and not promote one or the other product... Thanks! Gryzor 09:47, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

I have cleaned up the whole artice, removed advertisment-like phrases, re-wrote sentences that sounded too much like advertising and thigthened the language. Articles should contain no false or biased statements in any form. Keep it clear, true, neutral and objective. This is what I tried to accomplish when editing this article. - 2006-08-09; Gwildor -

Thanks for your effort Gwildor! The article looks a bit more polished now. --Octoate 14:07, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

I think the maximum file size currently is 512KB (19bit). I couldn't find any possibilities to load data from files, which are bigger than 512KB. Why is 16MB/24bit mentioned in the article? Also a planned feature for the future? -- Prodatron 17:02, 9 August 2006 (CEST)

Thanx to everybodys' effort the article looks a lot better now. I wouldn't call "CPC Booster support" like this, but who cares. What's about summarising some very small sections and maybe removing some user-manual-like sentences? -- Prodatron 17:44, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

Sumarised all sections which contained only 1 or 2 sentences and removed the FioLib text in its own article. -- Prodatron 19:16, 10 August 2006 (CEST)

Thank you for your excellent help. TFM

Protection is like censorship in my opinion. Could be ok in this case, this anonymouse user tries to rollback his advertisement every few days. People shouldn't be disinformed and waste time with searching for non-existing stuff like me. Rode

The changes made by Rode are NOT correct. Please remove Rodes changes, because they aren't true. Further protection should be introduced only aginst Rode, who is introducing errors, just to discredit the project FutureOS. TFM

Some headwords:

• with 16 years not new; actual release is 6 years old, next one (next year?) contains 4 new features
• limitation to 512K files, no random access
• no memory management, only a strange table
• every seriose CPC software is written in Z80
• 48K maximum ram usage only by the OS (read your manual) should be mentioned in the "requirements"
• no support for different printers, serial interfaces/CPC booster
• mouse can't be used in own programs, only during file selection (so-called "GUI")

My sources: program itself, rom description, manuals. As you remember I asked you in your mailing list, but you censored my 2nd mail. Bad behaviour and needless misinformation, I invested a lot of time. It's ok, that other people won't be misinformed. Rode

Some true words:

• The actual version (system .8) is 3 months old.
• the length of a file is only limited by the space on disc or harddisc (that means 5 MB for the Dobbertin HD20). Look at routines TEILA/TEILB and TEISI/TEISK. I told that before.
• there is memory management (for example use EFER).
• may be that nearly all serious CPC software is written in Z80 assember, so where is the problem???
• the OS needs only RAM from &A000 to &BFFF. That are 8 KB not 48 KB. Read again. More RAM is only used when DIRectorys have to be buffered. Normally maximal 16 KB more.
• There is support for 7 Bit and 8 Bit printer output (CPC old genereation or CPC-Plus, which use different ways to print 8 Bit characters). Serial interfaces support will be documented after XzentriX 2006, as I wrote before.
• The Desktop can be called as a subroutine, mouses can be used that way. But thank your for the hint, I will provide mouse-support as own routine in the next update. Further see H_JC which enables you to use joysticks and all joystick-compatible medias (also mouses and trackballs).

About your sources: There is NOT written what you talking about, please read again. Or better ask first! If you don't agree please copy and paste the corresponding information. Your second mail was censored, because in the FutureOS-ML is no place for defamations. I explained you that in detail in the mail I sent you some days ago. If people get misinformed, then this is just your merit.

So I hope to clear some things here. Greets to all CPC users. TFM

• The actual version (system .8) is 3 months old.

The OS is 16years old, not the actual still unfinshed version. In any case this ad-phrase doesn't belong into a Wiki article. Please see other articles.

Actual system .8 (exact that version you can download) is fully functional and working. A part of it is new written. And ok, some just perfect routines are still 16 years old, because the run pretty well, so why they should be changed?

• the length of a file is only limited by the space on disc or harddisc (that means 5 MB for the Dobbertin HD20). Look at routines TEILA/TEILB and TEISI/TEISK. I told that before.

Bizarre routines. Do you really think, that someone will use it? And what can I do if I want to access the last part of a 4MB file? You even dont use it by yourself in this "filmaker" (or how it is called), as you split the file into 16k ones. Strange.

Please don't use polemics, when you're just wrong again. Filmemacher is NOT the OS.

• there is memory management (for example use EFER).

Not mentioned. Will you describe it in the "future", too? And please do some improvements on your label naming, believe me, it's very embarrassing.

As I told numerous times before, the documentation will be updated after 9.9.2006.

• may be that nearly all serious CPC software is written in Z80 assember, so where is the problem???

Advertisement.

That phrase is not from me. Originally there stod that the OS is written in Z80 assembler. So what's your problem? That is just an information, as like that other OSes are written in C for example.

• the OS needs only RAM from &A000 to &BFFF. That are 8 KB not 48 KB. Read again. More RAM is only used when DIRectorys have to be buffered. Normally maximal 16 KB more.

No comment. I read and experienced something completely different. Read your own manual or rewrite your OS.

Everybode read the same, expect you.

• There is support for 7 Bit and 8 Bit printer output (CPC old genereation or CPC-Plus, which use different ways to print 8 Bit characters).

Yes, and no printer support. Big difference.

Pfff, that's just your oppinion. Maybe you understand something differecnt as support than me. Maybe the CPC is no PC.

• Serial interfaces support will be documented after XzentriX 2006, as I wrote before.

Great.

• The Desktop can be called as a subroutine, mouses can be used that way. But thank your for the hint, I will provide mouse-support as own routine in the next update.

Great.

• Further see H_JC which enables you to use joysticks and all joystick-compatible medias (also mouses and trackballs).

Keyboard support as usual. I spoke about the mouses, you mentioned.

Your second mail was censored, because in the FutureOS-ML is no place for defamations. I explained you that in detail in the mail I sent you some days ago.

Didn't receive it. If you call questions and facts "defamations" it's not my problem. Unbelieveable behaviour. Good, that you can't censore something here.

Yes, right, your behaviour is really unbeliveable. If you don't like FutureOS, why don't you keep it for yourself. I don't see any help coming from you, just negative stuff.

So I hope to clear some things here.

Not really

Greets to all CPC users.

Greets to all, who are able to create a CPCWiki account.

Rode

Greets to you, you have learnt to increase your kind of polemics. But you are still no help for cpc-wiki.

Please try to finish this discussion. I don't like to unprotect the article until this has been done. It seems, that Rode already tried to program with FutureOS and made some experiences. Did anyone else do it beside TFM and Rode and can participate here? -- Prodatron 13:53, 28 August 2006 (CEST)

It only seems that he tried to program, if he really would have tried it he wouldn't argue that way. He just don't like FutureOS, so he tries to trample on it.

As the past has shown the discussion will never be finished. I dont like the idea of unlocking the article because I know what will follow. There should be an objective article that is only changed by administrators if necessary. Sad but true. --Villain 17:05, 28 August 2006 (CEST)

Yes the article should be protected against users, that only want to discredite the project.

The article will remain locked for the time being. It's really unfortunate that events are taking such a turn, at a time when the wiki is expanding at a good rate, which means that someone will have to keep an eye on all that is being written. Let's see if the discussion cools down a bit, then decide. Gryzor 18:26, 28 August 2006 (CEST)

---

Filmemacher is NOT the OS.

I see, applications can't load long files. More parts of the article have to be corrected or deleted.

Everybode read the same, expect you.

From the manual: "Block 0: from &0000 to &3FFF [...] You shouldn't use this block for longer times, because of the OS (Desktop) uses it [...] Block 2: from &8000 to &BFFF [...] The OS uses maximal 8K (between &A000 and &BFFF)." Makes 16K+8K plus 2K for each directory (12x max=24K) in the "E-RAM" =48K max. Btw, I didn't count the 16K additional memory for each open file, when using FIOLIB, which would waste another big amount of memory.

If you don't like FutureOS, why don't you keep it for yourself.

It's not the question if I like it or not but the question, if someone should be allowed to post advertisments and misinformation. Because of this misinformation I became very frustrated, when trying to do something useful with this bizarre construction. Should be avoided.

But you are still no help for cpc-wiki.

Strange hearing this from a person, who uses an anonymouse IP and is only working on the advertisment for his own single CPC production, instead of contributing to CPCWiki in general, like everyone else does. Rode